I Hate Apple Products

They suck.
They suck big time.
They suck on toast.
That's all I have to say.

I hate Windows. This is a list of ONE WEEK's worth of security patches:
Bulletin ID Bulletin Title Max Severity Rating Vulnerability Impact Restart Requirement Affected Software
APSB13-04
Security Updates for Adobe Flash Player Critical Remote Code Execution May require restart Adobe Flash Player for All Platforms
MS13-009
Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer (2792100) Critical Remote Code Execution Requires restart Internet Explorer in Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012, and Windows RT.
MS13-010
Vulnerability in Vector Markup Language Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2797052) Critical Remote Code Execution May require restart Internet Explorer in Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012, and Windows RT.
MS13-011
Vulnerability in Media Decompression Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2780091) Critical Remote Code Execution May require restart Microsoft Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, and Windows Server 2008.
MS13-012
Vulnerabilities in Microsoft Exchange Server Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2809279) Critical Remote Code Execution May require restart Microsoft Exchange Server 2007 and Microsoft Exchange Server 2010.
MS13-013
Vulnerabilities in FAST Search Server 2010 for SharePoint Parsing Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2784242) Important Remote Code Execution May require restart Microsoft FAST Search Server 2010 for SharePoint and Advanced Filter Pack.
MS13-014
Vulnerability in NFS Server Could Allow Denial of Service (2790978) Important Denial of Service Requires restart Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 and Windows Server 2012.
MS13-015
Vulnerability in .NET Framework Could Allow Elevation of Privilege (2800277) Important Elevation of Privilege May require restart Microsoft Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 8, and Windows Server 2012.
MS13-016
Vulnerabilities in Windows Kernel-Mode Driver Could Allow Elevation of Privilege (2778344) Important Elevation of Privilege Requires restart Microsoft Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012, and Windows RT.
MS13-017
Vulnerabilities in Windows Kernel Could Allow Elevation of Privilege (2799494) Important Elevation of Privilege Requires restart Microsoft Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012, and Windows RT.
MS13-018
Vulnerability in TCP/IP Could Allow Denial of Service (2790655) Important Denial of Service Requires restart Microsoft Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012, and Windows RT.
MS13-019
Vulnerability in Windows Client/Server Run-time Subsystem (CSRSS) Could Allow Elevation of Privilege (2790113) Important Elevation of Privilege Requires restart Microsoft Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2.
MS13-020
Vulnerability in OLE Automation Could Allow Remote Code Execution (2802968) Critical Remote Code Execution Requires restart Microsoft Windows XP.


On top of that, I just spent 20 minutes trying to find a file I'd run, then trying to figure out how to attach it to an email. The file was buried in some gawdawful corner of nowhere, and cut-and-paste was inactive, file properties were hidden, and there was no "file attach" utility. Windoze sucks dead donkey dicks.

I do not disagree with you about Windoze.

But I still hate Apple products.

Anything I can help you with?

Thank you, NoCo, for that kind offer, and some day I am sure I will take you up on it.
I have resolved the most recent problem (the one that led me to create this thread).
It amazes me that Apple ships products which come with no instructions at all. The least they could do is throw in a couple of pages telling you what needs to be done to make the damn things operable. At least point you to the proper page on the internet where you can get some assistance. And that's another problem - you can't use any Apple product if you are not connected to the internet.
Fortunately, I have a daughter who has owned nearly every Apple product and is a great help. She graduated with honors from the college Steve Jobs dropped out of.

Apple makes some very, very cool products. There's no doubt about that. But their support is abysmal if you don't live down the street from one of their stores.

_Howard wrote:

I have a daughter who has owned nearly every Apple product and is a great help. She graduated with honors from the college Steve Jobs dropped out of.

Is this the same daughter who went to Cannes?
France.
The French Riviera.

Apple plays up their "cool" factor by refusing to issue proper documentation. They actively court that insider-cognoscenti-vibe where you have to be a member of the Genius Bar to know how to do anything. I am occasionally stymied in trying to do the simplest thing -- only to discover, to my great annoyance, that the command for doing the thing I wanted was plainly displayed on the main page -- just not where I expected it.

Working with Windows all day, and Apple all night, leads to a kind of bipolar dyspepsia where nothing is guaranteed.

Another thing that pisses me off about Apple is that I can spend minutes looking for a command, only to give up and start issuing Windows commands -- which inevitably work!

What I *don't* miss about Windows would fill a fair-sized brick screed, but what I prefer about Apple is easily summarized:

* Things work, properly, the first time without fussing with it
* No viruses (to speak of -- with relatively minor precautions)
* When OS-X crashes, which it will do if you push it hard enough, it gently glides to the ground like a helicopter that's lost power -- instead of slamming into the ground like an F-15 and leaving a crater in your data.

These are not inconsiderable assets.

Also, the interoperability of using iMac/iPad/iPhone in conjunction is, no shit, slicker than snake snot.

Lisa wrote:

_Howard wrote:

I have a daughter who has owned nearly every Apple product and is a great help. She graduated with honors from the college Steve Jobs dropped out of.

Is this the same daughter who went to Cannes?
France.
The French Riviera.

Yes.

You don't actually download all those updates do you?
I haven't updated Vista in over a year and it runs as smooth as can be.

Same here.
But that's just us. Life in the fast lane.

You're running with known vulnerabilities to cyberattack.

But no, I don't update the computers at work -- we have a department for that. But when I used to have a Microsloth at home it hung up downloading updates and security patches every other day or so.

[Edit: I like that -- "hung up downloading updates" -- has a nice ring to it...]

NoCoPilot wrote:

You're running with known vulnerabilities to cyberattack.

No, I'm not. A) I do check to see if any of them are important and actually apply to me and B) I have security. Good security.

Besides, MS creates the vulnerabilities with the last piss poor update. Don't download update 1 and you won't need update 2 to fix the "vulnerabilities" in it.

Okay, hope you're right.

NoCoPilot wrote:

Okay, hope you're right.

Have been for what five years now? It might be six. And not just on one computer but on three. Besides it's not like my little HP ( or the other two in the house) is a hub of activity that would be worth the time of a cyber attacker. I mean, let's be reasonable here. And it's not like Apple is immune to internet threats. It touts itself as not open to viruses but it is very much open to worms, rootkits, malware and any other number of nasty things they don't explain in those cutesy commercials. And as their market share grows so will their exposure.

Jenni wrote:

Have been for what five years now? It might be six. And not just on one computer but on three. Besides it's not like my little HP ( or the other two in the house) is a hub of activity that would be worth the time of a cyber attacker. I mean, let's be reasonable here. And it's not like Apple is immune to internet threats. It touts itself as not open to viruses but it is very much open to worms, rootkits, malware and any other number of nasty things they don't explain in those cutesy commercials. And as their market share grows so will their exposure.

Do you pay bills online? Do you visit PayPal or E-Bay? Or any porn sites?

They're all known for exploiting Windows vulnerabilities to steal identities and banking information. They may not infect you with a virus, you may not notice anything has changed at all.

But your credit card data, bank account #s, SS #, and other stuff could be in the hands of a nefarious third party without you even knowing it.

The OS-X operating system is Linux-based and does not have the remote activation loopholes written into Windows.

[Edit: on further research, Apples are vulnerable to attacks through Adobe, Flash, and several other 3rd party software packages, just like Windows. Caution is the byword everywhere]

[Edit: on further research, Apples are vulnerable to attacks through Adobe, Flash, and several other 3rd party software packages, just like Windows. Caution is the byword everywhere]

Exactly.
My security covers all that other and is still cheaper than buying apple.

Look, I am just not the demographic Apple is marketed to. I will never have over a thousand dollars to spend on a computer, especially not a notebook. I will never have a special phone that costs over 50 a month because I can use apps. You are a True Believer in Apple and to you it will always be superior. Fine. But that does not make it a superior product for everyone. And even if it did what does it matter if I can't afford it? And because I am not a True Believer I will never have the confidence you do in the product so even if I paid more for Apple I'd probably still have security.

In the end, for me it boils down to Apple's atmosphere is not one I will ever want to do business with. Their marketing strategies reek of racism and classism and they seem to think they still own the product I buy.

I was recently given a friend's Ipod. I Googled this Ipod, it's still a 200 dollar item. While I was jazzed as hell to get all the content on it, especially the audio books I find that my 20 dollar Walmart MP3 player is superior in so many ways. But what gets me again, is the attitude. My friend paid for whats on there. If she wants to give it to me that's her right, same as if I give her a book or DVD. Apple however wants to intervene and say that I have no right to what she gave me if it was bought on Itunes. Now, I of course have found a way to manage the Ipod without downloading the Itunes and having it scraped clean (thanks again Lisa) but the fact that you have to worry about that is a level of rudeness that does not make me want to do business with them. Once I buy something I get to say how I use it or whom I give it to.

Jenni,

The next time you buy music online, try eMusic. Everything you buy from them belongs to you to do with as you like. They were around before iTunes, so don't let Apple tell you they invented music downloads. I will never again download anything from Apple.

_Howard wrote:

Jenni,

The next time you buy music online, try eMusic. Everything you buy from them belongs to you to do with as you like. They were around before iTunes, so don't let Apple tell you they invented music downloads. I will never again download anything from Apple.

I haven't used ITunes yet. Typically I have used Amazon. It's easy, it transfers, it's like .99. Occasionally when I can't find something on Amazon I will use a downloader and take it off You Tube for free and convert it. I would gladly pay except I couldn't find it on a pay service. But I'll give Emusic a try as well. Never hurts to have more than one location to pull from. Especially for some of the more obscure stuff.

You are entitled to your opinion. I'm not trying to sell anyone on Apple.

However, I was a Windows user 1986-2000, and only took the plunge because a) I had a big tax refund from 1999's taxes and b) my tricked-out megafast Windows box went BSOD about 5 times in the weeks leading up to the refund check.

You hear a lot of reasons why Android and Windows are superior, but always from people who are not Apple users. People migrate from Windows to Apple -- you almost never hear of anyone migrating the other way.

Just sayin'.

NoCoPilot wrote:

People migrate from Windows to Apple -- you almost never hear of anyone migrating the other way.

Just sayin'.

Well, you're hearing about it now. My first computer was an all-in-one emac. At the time, it was all about video editing. And it was supposed to be the best. I knew it wasn't for me, (lack of intuitiveness), when I wanted to try Virtual PC (Win 98).
Bingo.
I never looked back.
But it was easy to get through password protection when I handed it down to my husband.

NoCoPilot wrote:

However, I was a Windows user 1986-2000,

Very interesting. We had the beta version of Windows 95 (it was called Chicago) in..when was it...oh, yeah, 1995.
You must have had a very early version. Like Windows 1.0, which wasn't an operating system, but merely an application program running under DOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1
Released in 1992. Between 1986 and 1992 I had DOS-based machines -- so you are correct, I mispoke.
MS-DOS 3.2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_DOS_operating_systems to be precise, followed by 3.3, 4.0, 4.01 and then Win 3.2

I built myself an entire GUI using Norton Utilities and DOS batch files

I was a DOS God

NoCoPilot wrote:

People migrate from Windows to Apple -- you almost never hear of anyone migrating the other way.

Some years ago, when my daughter was leaving for college, I was trying to decide whether to buy her a new PC or an Apple. So I went to the lead Apple software engineer in the company. Turned out that, although he was doing the program design for the Apple products, he had changed his opinion after many years as an Apple user, and recommended a PC for my daughter. He described the manner in which Apple memory management worked and I was amazed. It was fucking horrible. Without touching the keyboard, just two or three mouse clicks, and I could crash any Apple computer then on the market. I went down to the QA labs and tried it on several models and, sure enough, they crashed one after the other.

So there's an example of a very knowledgeable person who migrated from Apples to PCs.

Apple makes very cool products, but they are horribly overpriced (Apple has always had the highest profit margin in the industry by far) and, from what I hear from many Apple users, they are not reliable; lots of stories about how wonderful Apple is in fixing their broken equipment. When I tell an Apple user I'm thinking about buying Apple product X, they always tell me to be sure and buy AppleCare, possibly the most overpriced hardware guarantee on the market, sometimes as much as twenty percent of the product price.

Comparing Apples and PCs is like comparing rotten apples and rotten oranges.

Okay, okay, calm down. Watch your blood pressure.

_Howard wrote:

So there's an example of a very knowledgeable person who migrated from Apples to PCs.

As opposed to the veritable moron who posted 5 posts ago, about switching.