Outlawing Abortion

I wonder if the people who outlawed abortion at any stage for any reason still believe in circumcision, "because babies don't have fully-formed pain mechanisms."

When abortion is outlawed, only outlaws will get abortions.

The laws being created by right-wing ideologues all predicate on punishing the pregnancy-termination service provider.  Nobody (except Trump, who is too dumb to have thought it through) advocates punishing the woman for seeking an abortion.

Therefore -- when Roe is overturned -- which it inevitably will be in 4 or 5 years (rather than 2020), I can foresee the explosion of self-abortions using drugs like RU-486 (mifepristone) and misoprostol.  If the woman does it, she cannot be prosecuted.  The person or firm that provides the drugs can't be prosecuted either, because their role is passive.  They can be anonymized anyway to protect their identity.

Post-Roe will be a scary time for women.  Getting good medical advice will be difficult.  Hopefully organizations like NOW and PBS will post instructions on their websites, and women will be able to get the drugs and information they need without endangering physicians.

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Roe v Wade gave women in America the right to obtain an abortion until about 24 weeks into a pregnancy, when a fetus could potentially live outside the womb (a normal-term pregnancy is 40 weeks). Lawmakers in Ohio and elsewhere hope to challenge that standard by arguing that the detection of cardiac activity is a better limit.

It seems to me we need to come up with a new term for the mass of cells in a woman's uterus before fetal viability.  

If it cannot survive outside the womb, it's definitely not a "baby."  I would argue that fetal viability is the point at which it even becomes a "fetus" for the last 16 weeks.  

Prior to that, it's a blastocyst, a growth, a clump of cells with no rights or independence.  The idea of prosecuting a woman or her doctor for removing a growth is ludicrous.

We need a new term, to reframe the discussion.  Christian zealots should not be allowed to frame the argument with misleading "heartbeat bills."

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The zygote develops by mitosis, and when it has developed into 16 cells becomes known as the morula. Until this stage in development all cells (blastomeres) are autonomous and not specified to any fate. In many animals, the morula then develops by cavitation to become the blastula. Cellular differentiation then develops the blastula's cells into two types: trophoblast cells that surround the blastocoel and an inner mass of cells (the embryoblast). The conceptus is then known as the blastocyst. The side of the blastocyst where the inner cellular mass forms is called the animal pole, and the opposite side is the vegetal pole. The outer layer of trophoblast cells, resulting from compaction, pumps sodium ions into blastocyst, which causes water to enter through osmosis and form the internal fluid-filled blastocyst cavity (blastocoel). The blastocoel, trophoblast cells and inner cell mass cells are hallmarks of the blastocyst.

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Many consider a pregnancy to have taken place with the union of the egg and the sperm – or with fertilization. That fact is, when the egg is fertilized it remains initially “detached” from the mother – just a tiny, free-floating speck in the wide universe of the womb. Following fertilization, the incipient embryo (or blastocyst) is just a cluster of multiplying cells – and the blastocyst must develop and grow through a number of phases and stages before it is prepared to “hook up” with the mother. This hook up or connection is called “implantation”.When the embryo (blastocyst) is ready, it will nestle into the womb or side of the uterus. At this moment of implantation, pregnancy has officially taken place and the placental tissue begins to secrete the hormone hCG. Implantation may take place as early as a handful of days after ovulation or well over a week. On average, one can expect implantation to occur about seven to ten days after you ovulate. This is also the point at which you can take an early pregnancy test.

Signs of implantation are few: Unlike pains associated with the release of the egg (mittelschmerz), there is seldom any kind of cramping or physical awareness that implantation has taken place. In fact, the first sign of implantation may be a positive pregnancy test! On the other hand, some women do experience what is called implantation bleeding, a very light spotting that may occur just shortly after the embryo implants in the uterine lining of the womb. Again, this spotting will be very light, won’t last more than a day, and will be typically brown or possibly reddish in color.

Maybe the term "conceptus" fits the bill?

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Embryo vs. Fetus: Fetal Development Week-by-Week

With each week of pregnancy, your baby-to-be is developing leaps and bounds.

You might hear your doctor talk about different phases of pregnancy with specific medical terms like embryo and zygote. These describe your baby's pregnancy’s stages of development.

Here’s more about what those terms mean, what your baby pregnancy is up to week-by-week, and what you can expect along the way.

What’s a Zygote?
Fertilization is a process that usually happens within a few hours of ovulation. It’s that critical point in reproduction when the sperm meets the newly released egg. At this meeting, 23 male and 23 female chromosomes mix together to create a single cell embryo called a zygote.

Embryo vs. Fetus
In human pregnancies, a baby-to-be isn’t considered a fetus until the 9th week after conception, or week 11 after your last menstrual period (LMP).

The embryonic period is all about the formation of important systems of the body. Think of it as your baby's embryo’s basic foundation and framework.

The fetal period, on the other hand, is more about growth and development so your baby fetus can survive in the outside world.

The First 10 Weeks of Pregnancy
Weeks 1 and 2: Preparation
You actually aren’t pregnant[sic] during the first two weeks (on average) of your cycle. Instead, the body is preparing to release the egg. Take note of when your last period started so you can give this information to your doctor. The LMP will help your doctor date your pregnancy and determine your due date.

Week 3: Ovulation
This week begins with ovulation, the release of an egg into the woman’s fallopian tubes. If the sperm is ready and waiting, there’s a chance the egg will become fertilized and turn into a zygote.

Week 4: Implantation
After fertilization, the zygote continues to divide and morph into a blastocyst. It continues its journey down the fallopian tubes to the uterus. It takes about three days to reach this destination, where it will hopefully implant into your uterine lining.

If implantation takes place, your body will start to secrete human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), the hormone that’s detected by home pregnancy tests.

Week 5: Embryonic Period Starts
Week 5 is important because it starts the embryonic period, which is when the bulk of your baby's embryo's systems will be forming. The embryo is in three layers at this point. It’s only the size of the tip of a pen.

   The top layer is the ectoderm. This is what will eventually turn into your baby’s skin, nervous system, eyes, inner ears, and connective tissue.
   The middle layer is the mesoderm. It’s responsible for your baby’s bones, muscles, kidneys, and reproductive system.
   The last layer is the endoderm. It’s where your baby’s lungs, intestines, and bladder will later develop.

Week 6
Baby's The embryo’s heart starts to beat at the start of this week. Your doctor may even be able to detect it on an ultrasound. Your baby embryo doesn’t look like the one you’ll bring home from the hospital yet, but they’re gaining some very basic facial features, plus arm and leg buds.

Week 7
Baby’s Your embryo's brain and head are further developing in week 7. Those buds of arms and legs have turned into paddles. Your baby embryo is still as tiny as a pencil eraser, but they already have little nostrils. The lenses of their eyes are beginning to form.

Week 8
Your baby’s embryo's eyelids and ears are forming so they’ll be able to see and hear you. Their upper lip and nose are also starting to take shape.

Week 9
Baby’s Your embryo's arms can now bend at the elbow. Their toes are forming, too. Their eyelids and ears are getting more refined.

Week 10: Embryonic Period Ends
Your baby embryo started as a tiny speck and is still less than 2 inches long from crown to rump. Still, your little one is starting to look like a tiny newborn. Many of their body’s systems are in place.

This is the last week of the embryonic period.

Week 11 and Beyond
Congratulations, you’ve graduated from having an embryo to a fetus. From week 11 onward, your baby fetus will continue to develop and grow until the end of your pregnancy. Here’s more of what they’re up to.

Late First Trimester
Your baby’s fetus's development is still in high gear for the rest of the first trimester. They’ve even started to grow fingernails. Their face has taken on more human characteristics. By the end of week 12, your baby fetus will be 2-1/2 inches from crown to rump, and weigh around 1/2 ounce.

Second Trimester
Week 13 marks the start of the second trimester. During this stage, your fetus is looking and operating more like a real baby. Early on, their sex organs are developing, their bones are getting stronger, and fat is starting to accumulate on their body. Midway through, their hair becomes visible, and they can suck and swallow. They can start to hear your voice, too.

Your baby fetus will grow during this time from 3 1/2 inches from crown to rump, to 9 inches. Their weight will go from 1 1/2 ounces to 2 pounds.

Third Trimester
Starting at week 27, you’re in the third trimester. In the first half of this stage, your fetus starts to open their eyes, practices breathing in amniotic fluid, and becomes covered in vernix caseosa.

Toward the end, they are gaining weight more quickly, making lots of big movements, and starting to crowd themself[sic] in the amniotic sac.

Your fetus starts the third trimester at 10 inches from crown to rump, and grows to 18 to 20 inches. Their weight starts at 2 1/4 pounds and goes up to 6 1/2 pounds. The length and weight of babies at delivery varies greatly.

Miscarriage

Early pregnancy can be difficult on your mind and emotions. Researchers estimate that between 10 to 25 percent of all clinically recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage (pregnancy loss before 20 weeks).

Many of these miscarriages happen in the earliest stages of development, even before you’ve missed your period*. The rest usually happen before week 13**.

Reasons for miscarriage might include:

   chromosomal abnormalities
   underlying medical conditions
   hormone issues
   woman’s age at conception
   failed implantation
   lifestyle choices (e.g., smoking, drinking, or poor nutrition)

Contact your doctor if you’re pregnant and experience vaginal bleeding (with or without clots), cramping, or a loss of pregnancy symptoms. Some of these symptoms may be normal, but it’s a good idea to double check.

* - If a woman miscarries, she should not be chargeable with involuntary manslaughter.  For the first six weeks -- the current target of the so-called* "heartbeat bills" -- the blastocyst isn't even an embryo yet.
** - Week 13 is still 11 weeks away from fetal viability, when a fetus is theoretically able to survive outside the womb

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Implantation failure is considered to be caused by inadequate uterine receptivity in two-thirds of cases, and by problems with the embryo itself in the other third

The whole fertilized egg <--> zygote <--> blastocyst <--> conceptus <--> embryo <--> fetus <--> baby procession is too complicated and wordy for a protest poster.

We need only three terms:

• a new term for conception-to-viability
  
• fetus for viability to birth
  
• baby for post-birth
  

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When sperm and egg meet, the new human being created is at the earliest possible stage of development, and is called a zygote. It is a single cell with 46 chromosomes (23 from each parent). As it travels through the Fallopian tube it undergoes further early development, dividing into a bundle of cells, and is called a blastocyst at this stage. After the blastocyst implants in the uterus, the embryonic period begin and it is known as an embryo. It continues cell division, cell differentiation begins, major systems begin to develop.

Eight weeks after the zygote was created, the fetal period begins and the embryo is now called a fetus, until birth where the medical term for the newborn infant is neonate.

Okay, how about prenate?

Oh heck, it's already trademarked.

"Heartbeat bills" don't even look at a real heartbeat.

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So far this year, four U.S. states have passed laws banning abortions when a fetal heartbeat can be detected, at around six weeks of pregnancy; several additional states are also considering these so-called heartbeat bills.

But what exactly do we mean when we talk about a "fetal heartbeat" at six weeks of pregnancy? Although some people might picture a heart-shaped organ beating inside a fetus, this is not the case.

Rather, at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby," said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said.

But the heart is far from fully formed at this stage, and the "beat" isn't audible; if doctors put a stethoscope up to a woman's belly this early on in her pregnancy, they would not hear a heartbeat, Aftab told Live Science. (What's more, it isn't until the eighth week of pregnancy that the baby is called a fetus; prior to that, it's still considered an embryo, according to the Cleveland Clinic.)

It's been only in the last few decades that doctors have even been able to detect this flutter at six weeks, thanks to the use of more-sophisticated ultrasound technologies, Aftab said. Previously, the technology wasn't advanced enough to detect the flutter that early on in pregnancy.

Although a lot of weight seems to be put on the detection of this flutter, "by no means does it translate to viability of the heart" or viability of the pregnancy, Aftab said.

The heart still has a lot of development to undergo before it is fully formed. Indeed, the entire first trimester of pregnancy is a time of "organogenesis," or the formation of organs, Aftab said.

After the detection of the flutter at six weeks, the heart muscle continues to develop over the next four to six weeks, undergoing the folding and bending that needs to happen for the heart to take its final shape, Aftab said.

"A lot of the heart development is still ongoing" during the first trimester, she said.

Clarence Thomas (the current longest-serving Justice) is itching to overturn Roe, but his more-sober colleagues are wary of precedent.

Because Clarence Thomas is a batshit-crazy conspiracy theorist.

Kamala Harris would have a 'constitutional test' for states' abortion laws.  Which raises a valid point -- why is ANY state law allowed to go into effect if it violates the federal constitution?

Yes, states should be free to tailor laws to their own people.  But not if they violate the national constitution, which enshrines certain "American inalienable rights."

NoCoPilot wrote:

Because Clarence Thomas is a batshit-crazy conspiracy theorist.

Who misstates his supporting documents.

In Alabama — where lawmakers banned abortion for rape victims — rapists’ parental rights are protected

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Alabama is one of two states with no statute terminating parental rights for a person found to have conceived the child by rape or incest, a fact that has gained fresh relevance since its lawmakers adopted the nation’s strictest abortion ban in May. That statute even outlaws the procedure for victims of sexual assault and jails doctors who perform it, except in cases of serious risk to the woman’s health.

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Ned Holstein, board chair for the National Parents Organization, which advocates for shared parenting after divorce, said that allowing family courts to sever parental rights based on rape accusations is “an open invitation to fraud.”

“Taking a person’s child away is a grievous act,” he said. “And if it is done to an innocent parent, you are also denying the child a fit parent forever and putting her into the sole custody of a ruthless parent who is willing to fabricate a heinous accusation.”

Even if a person is convicted of rape, “there is merit on both sides of this issue, and we have no position on it, either way,” he said of his organization.

richard09 wrote:

In Alabama — where lawmakers banned abortion for rape victims — rapists’ parental rights are protected

Alabama -- and the rest of the Confederacy -- are still living in 1861. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why every woman in those 13 states doesn't pack her bags and move north for the duration.  It's the only way state lawmakers will be brought kicking and screaming to the 20th or 21st Centuries.

NoCoPilot wrote:

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why every woman in those 13 states doesn't pack her bags and move north for the duration.  It's the only way state lawmakers will be brought kicking and screaming to the 20th or 21st Centuries.

Explain to me how I do that. Seriously. We earn less money down here. So it's really hard to make 10 an hour and live plus save to move to a place where the rent and expenses are gonna reflect the probably 15 hr min wage. Many of us have kids that a Maw Maw watches. Is Maw Maw gonna move too? You gonna give us all free childcare while we look for jobs? You gonna talk someone's abuela to watch our kids too? What about people like me who own property not easily gotten rid of? If they were smart they'd buy me out and declare no one live here because climate shift is making this a flood zone. But they won't. You wanna be the poor sap who buys this future creek bottom from me so I can move up there? Why do you say you don't understand when the realities are so obvious?

What makes you think lawmakers will view our departure as anything other than the trash taking itself out?

Supreme Court abortion case based on false data on abortion's risks.

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In reality, Erenberg noted, there’s a higher rate of hospitalization for wisdom tooth removal than there is for abortion.

Not that it will matter to Kavanaugh's Kops, who have an agenda.

It might disgust me but it doesn't shock me. The guy who is the abortion doc for this area is forced by the government to lie to patients about the risks of abortion. Of course after he gives the government line he also tells them the truth but the fact is that he has to tell patients lies.

Score one for Louisiana.

But only on a technicality.  Like the other two rulings recently when John Roberts sided with the liberals, he did so not on principle, but because the government's lawyers presented such shoddy, ill-conceived, poorly-written cases that he couldn't bring himself to codify them into precedent.  If the DOJ ever pulls their heads out of Barr's massive asshole, Roberts will go back to siding with the four most vile and regressive judges the court has ever harbored.

NoCoPilot wrote:

Therefore -- when Roe is overturned -- which it inevitably will be in 4 or 5 years (rather than 2020), I can foresee the explosion of self-abortions using drugs like RU-486 (mifepristone) and misoprostol.  If the woman does it, she cannot be prosecuted.

Looks like I may have been 3 or 4 years late in this prediction. With at least four, and possibly five, Supreme Court justices itching to overturn fifty years of case law and established precedent, this'll likely happen this term, this year.  They're rushing now, to get ahead of a 13-judge court after Biden gets his infrastructure and voting rights bills passed.

Of course a 2-year precedent is even easier to overturn than a 50-year precedent.

Nancy Northrup, CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights, pointed out on Rachel tonight that overturning Roe will not just affect women’s reproductive rights. It would establish the precedent that nobody has the right to self determination anymore, and soon to fall afterward would be marriage equality, LGBT rights, miscegenation laws, and so forth. Seems a bit alarmist, but I have no doubt that’s the Right's ultimate agenda.

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"The stakes here are extraordinarily high,” Northup said. “If the court were to weaken the right to abortion, abortion would likely be banned ― banned entirely in half of the country, many places in the South and the Midwest.”

CRR estimates that 24 states would likely prohibit abortion entirely if Roe v. Wade falls.

Those most affected would be Black people and people struggling to make ends meet, as “they already face significant hurdles to accessing abortion,” Northup added.

Here we go, abortion is officially on the chopping block. I'm sure conservatives want to rush through an overturn of Roe v. Wade before liberals have a chance to change the court's make-up.

And wouldn't you know, it's Mississippi bringing the case.  The most backward state in the union. I heard on the news today that Mississippi ranks 50th out of 50 states for health care, 49th out of 50 for the economy, and 48th out of 50 for infrastructure. Overall, it ranks as the second-worst state in the union in which to live. The only state worse was the bordering Louisiana.

CNN wrote:

In some alternate universe, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg retired during the Obama presidency and Democrats were able to push through a successor to the conservative Justice Antonin Scalia.
In that universe, nobody is talking about an end to nearly 50 years of nationwide access to abortion rights.

But here we are.

I'd forgotten the discussion over whether RBG should retire when her health started failing.  In retrospect her pride/hubris has done Roe v Wade in.

Now Breyer is in the same position.  I guess it must be hard to retire from a lifetime appointment.

Roe v. Wade has been struck down in Texas.

Women have the power, in Texas and in Afghanistan. If the men who have seized power are being dicks, it's up to the women to leave, withhold or object.

The situations are surprisingly parallel.

Someone should sue Greg Abbott for encouraging abortion, in this case outside the state of Texas. The suer will be eligible for $10,000 in settlement, plus their legal fees will be paid.

This is no doubt, none at all, that Abbott’s move is guaranteed to force numerous women to seek abortions outside the state. It would be a slam dunk case.