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 No More Ivory

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_Howard
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PostSubject: No More Ivory   Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:04 pm

The administration has effectively banned all sale of ivory and items containing ivory within the USA. Even items made from ivory imported before the import ban are affected. So now I cannot sell any of my pool cues which contain ivory. The government has effectively reduced their value from around two-thousand dollars each to nothing.

While I am against the killing of elephants, devaluing my cues with old, legal ivory in them will not save a single elephant.

Shit!

LA Times
Forbes
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:27 pm

Today your cues, tomorrow your assault rifles.
Quote :

The new measures also will ban the import of antique African elephant ivory and all exports, except antiques.

The administration will ban the resale of elephant ivory across state lines, except antiques. Sales within a state will be prohibited unless the seller can demonstrate an item was lawfully imported before 1990 for African elephants and 1975 for Asian elephants. People can still own ivory and pass heirlooms to descendants, officials said.

Exceptions to the current rules have allowed trade in ivory to flourish in the United States, environmentalists said.

"Because we have an antiquities exemption, everything becomes an antique," said a senior administration official who declined to be identified because he was not authorized to speak for his agency.

To qualify as an antique under the new measures, an item must be more than 100 years old and meet other requirements under the Endangered Species Act, criteria that sellers will have to demonstrate.


Last edited by NoCoPilot on Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:30 pm

Yes. All my ivory-inlaid assault rifles are now worthless.

Changing the law after the fact really fucks up a lot of people who complied with the laws as they were when the items were purchased. It is impossible - or incredibly expensive - for an individual to prove that a small item is legal.

And what about elephant leather? That's still legal. Some of my cues have wraps that are made from elephant ear. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the elephants who contributed their ears were, in fact, dead. Just as dead as those who have had their tusks removed.

This is another one of those laws that is done for publicity and to relieve the law enforcement agencies of the responsibility for proving that a crime has been committed.

Sucks big time.
And pisses me off, in case you haven't noticed.

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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:29 pm

Yeah, but --

It says in the article that fresh ivory and old non-antique ivory are hard to tell apart, the former is often peddled as the latter, so the only way to stop the poaching is to illegalize both.

I happen to like the idea of elephants existing for a few more years. I think it's despicable that they're being hunted to extinction. I can live without ivory.

They can't.
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:53 pm

"the only way to stop the poaching is to illegalize both"

Really? Making it illegal to sell old ivory is going to prevent the killing of elephants? Really?

It hasn't been legal to import ivory into the US for a long time (with some exceptions). But the ivory that was imported before the ban has been legal for commerce. It's up to the authorities' to prevent the poaching and sales of the illegal stuff. And I agree with you completely that the slaughter of elephants must be stopped. It's a horrible thing. This law, however, will do absolutely nothing to prevent the slaughter. Nothing. It's just PR. Oh, and also bullshit.

"fresh ivory and old non-antique ivory are hard to tell apart."

Well, too fucking bad.
Fresh ivory is very easy to tell from old ivory. Ivory used in pool cues must be dried for twenty to thirty years. If the ivory police can't tell the difference, then we need new police.

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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:27 pm

So what's more important to you, your pool cue or the last remaining elephant?
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:44 am

Does that question have anything to do with the new law?

I think I stated my position on the killing of elephants in other posts.
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:13 pm

Yeah you're agin it. But the article makes clear the ban on ivory importation has not worked to stem the tide of elephant killings.

It's drastic, but the situation is drastic. What would you have them do?
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:26 pm

This law is not drastic, but merely cosmetic. It will have no effect on the ivory poaching trade, as it applies only to legal owners of legal ivory. That is, the law will no longer differentiate between legally-imported-and-owned ivory and illegal ivory. Considering the way American law enforcement works, I must assume that the limited number of personnel involved in the policing of the ivory trade will spend much of their time investigating and prosecuting people who have broken no laws other than the sale of a small legally-owned piece of ivory. That will be much easier for them than having to deal with criminals.


In any case, it is estimated that about three quarters of the illegal ivory is going to China, where it is much more profitable than it is in the US.
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:55 pm

Then sell your pool cues (and elephant foot wastebasket) to China.
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:18 pm

This isn't supposed to be about me and my cues (which I have no desire to sell). It's about an insipid law; about the government's penchant for laws which cannot accomplish anything worthwhile, but are designed simply for appearance. And I'm sure you are well aware that waivers and exceptions to the enforcement of the law will be flying off D.C. desks for all of the large sellers of ivory. Only we peasants will be affected.

There are many significant matters the government should be dealing with, but this is what they waste their time with. That's the point of the thread.
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:58 am

Everyone's a fan of government action until their ox gets gored.
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:07 pm

I don't think ox horns are covered in this law.
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:11 pm

Nobody speaks for the walrus
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PostSubject: Re: No More Ivory   Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:47 pm

Walrus tusk are banned, as are tusks from the narwhal. And, of course, rhino horns.

But no one speaks for the eggman (well, not since 1967 "Jooba jooba").
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