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 Dan vs Sam: Free Will vs Determinism

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SAI2



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PostSubject: Dan vs Sam: Free Will vs Determinism   Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:05 am

There is an interesting debate raging between my two favourite philosopher/debaters on, what else...

Are you compatible or incompatible?

I must say, after all these years of believing there was 'elbow room' enough for FW and the big D to co-exist, I'm beginning to sense a tremor in the Dennetian force... I'm slipping from siding with Dan to realizing Sam has, at the very least the better argument.

Sam never fails to impress.
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Jenni
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PostSubject: Re: Dan vs Sam: Free Will vs Determinism   Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:25 pm

I've argued this a time or two and I forget the guy's name, the link is probably buried in my hard drive- god knows where- but my thought has been that we don't have free will, but determinism doesn't have to be the other choice and we still have to functions as though we do have free will or we can't really form a societal structure.
I think people confuse the 'capability to narrow down from a list of available options' with 'free will'.

I also think our will is not free. It is expensive. Which is why so few people use it. Our will. What makes us human, in a way. What let's us have forethought and desire and outcome. It's costly, it takes a brain to operate it. A large brain, that causes other issues. And as we spend it we don't necessarily have more. Will power is a pie. You can only aim for so much at a time. That complicates matters greatly.
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SAI2



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PostSubject: Re: Dan vs Sam: Free Will vs Determinism   Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:55 am

Agreed.

I do think Sam had articulated the objections to free will better than anyone Ive read at any rate.

As for energy investment,  etc... I do agree. Will, generally takes effort, and along with that effort is tied up all kinds of other stuff which is very draining.

It's kinda like that last thread we were involved in.  I just find after a great deal of time,  energy,  and investment that as a thread,  and that thread was very emotional for me personally too, even though I was trying to be objective,  but as any thread gets too complex and multi-paged,  I just don't have it in me to invest in what would end up being a small book.  There comes a point, a  threshold, where I have to just stop and agree to disagree. Markaba and I used to run into this allot. If I were to take the time to address every point made and re-read over every page, every post. .. I'd be investing more energy and effort than getting any satisfying return I might hope to get from that effort. Maybe I'll take a stab at it again sometime down the road. For now though Im restricting my posts, and economiing my effort and energy for another day. :-)
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