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 The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era

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NoCoPilot

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PostSubject: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:25 pm

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richard09

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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:28 am

The Sun is a Murdoch tabloid that makes the National Enquirer look intellectual. I wouldn't consider it indicative of anything.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:45 am

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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:46 am

And Fox News repeats it as fact.

And Donald Trump watches (& believes!) Fox News as the only non-"Fake News."
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:29 am

In another example of what I consider crap science, the Cassini-Huygens probe which has been orbiting Saturn successfully for 13 years, still returning lots of useful scientific data, was intentionally scuttled Friday, steered into Saturn's atmosphere to burn up. This was done to avoid any contamination of Saturn's moons, some of which "might harbor life."

Yeah right.

As if a probe that's been hurtling through space since 1997 has any earth microbes still alive on it.

As if moons of Saturn harbor life... and that life would be affected (negatively) by earth microbes.

As if we would ever visit Saturn's moons again to find that damage.

I think the chance of all those "as ifs" coming true is vanishingly close to zero.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:48 am

Cassini was destroyed at this time because it had run out of fuel. Control of the craft would soon be lost completely and the time for destruction was limited. Its mission had been completed.

Microbes in space.

Even if there were no microbes on Cassini, the craft is packed with electronics which have a lot of potentially hazardous materials.

No, we do not know if the moons have life on them. But we also don't know that there is not life there. Cassini was no longer useful, so there was nothing to be gained by not destroying it.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:59 am

You're too practical. I want to hang on to my irrational anger.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:35 am

Have you ever stopped to ponder why you get so irate about others believing in the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe?
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Yes.

  1. We have sentient life right here on planet Earth we haven't bothered to try to communicate with
  2. Funds spent in the "search for intelligent life in the universe" could be better spent in the "preservation and improvement of intelligent life in the universe"
  3. The belief that there MUST BE intelligent life out there is tantamount to religion and religious beliefs, in my opinion.  It has the same effect of devaluing the pitiful few years conscious beings are accorded here on Earth
  4. Science fiction TV and cinema has given people unrealistic views of the distances involved.  If people knew that contact with alien civilizations was impossible, even if one was discovered (somehow), perhaps their ardor for spending their children's and grand-children's wellbeing looking for such pipe dreams would be cooled.
  5. The one planet we know that harbors life is in danger from poor stewardship. Some thought should be given to that horrifying prospect
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:09 pm

Do you realize that everything you wrote has nothing to do with the possibility of life elsewhere? Not a word of science to be found.

As far as "spending their children's and grand-children's wellbeing" goes, the government quit spending on SETI about twenty-five years ago. The program is privately funded. Even if the feds were still paying for the program, the amount is insignificant; there are much better places to put your anger about government waste and theft.

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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:08 pm

"100% chance of supporting life" but of course that's like a "chance of winning the jackpot" at the casino.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:12 pm

_Howard wrote:
the government quit spending on SETI about twenty-five years ago.
Yes, the specific SETI program was phased out but every off-planet program of any type is still hyped to the public and to the Congressional supporters as "looking for evidence of life" so maybe it's not sentient, maybe it's just slime mold, something Congress can relate to.
Steven Vogt wrote:
I'm not a biologist, nor do I want to play one on TV. Personally, given the ubiquity and propensity of life to flourish wherever it can, I would say that... the chances of life on this planet are 100%. I have almost no doubt about it.  It's pretty hard to stop life once you give it the right conditions.  Life on other planets doesn't mean E.T.  Even a simple single-cell bacteria or the equivalent of shower mold would shake perceptions about the uniqueness of life on Earth.
"Ubiquitous"!  Hah! Crap science of the worst kind.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:38 pm

Life on this planet appeared pretty much just as soon as the surface cooled down from molten. For all that life is supposed to be so unlikely, nature didn't need any lengthy trial period.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:10 pm

richard09 wrote:
Life on this planet appeared pretty much just as soon as the surface cooled down from molten.
True.

What else ya got?
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:43 am

The existence of life on other planets is something that I believe will never be proven by direct contact. The discussion can only be about the probability of such existence.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:57 am

_Howard wrote:
The existence of life on other planets is something that I believe will never be proven by direct contact. The discussion can only be about the probability of such existence.
Let's see, what does that remind me of????

Oh yeah. God.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:29 am

Remarks like that are better than trying to support your position, I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:35 am

My point is, discussing either's "probability" is equivalent to asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:48 am

Do you not believe that there are any data which could lead one to have an educated opinion on the matter?

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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:59 am

Yes. The evidence so far says none exists.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:12 am

The "evidence so far" says there was no life where we looked. Do you believe that a few scratches on Mars is sufficient to make a decision about a septillion planets in the universe?
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:30 pm

Cannot prove a negative.

The only FACTUAL knowledge we have is what we've seen so far, and so far the score is Humanity=1, Aliens=0. If you want to play intellectual games with the septillion planets we know nothing about -- and most probably never will -- you can start counting angels anytime.

But it's not science.
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:49 pm

NoCoPilot wrote:
Cannot prove a negative.
Bullshit.

If you think that the minuscule search we made is the only knowledge we have which is applicable to the probability of life elsewhere, then you need to do a lot of reading.

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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:13 pm

Can you prove there are no fairies in your garden?
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PostSubject: Re: The State of Crap Science in the Trump Era   Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:08 pm

When you say, "Cannot prove a negative," you are making an all-inclusive statement. That is not the same as making a specific statement. I can think of negatives that cannot be proven, and some that can be proven. So fucking what? And, yes, I can prove that there are no fairies in my garden.

Can you prove that I do not have four arms, four legs, and two heads?

One major problem with the extraterrestrial life argument is that we cannot carefully examine a statistically significant number of planets by which to make a scientifically acceptable negative conclusion.

We have to look at matters that do not require digging up a trillion planets. This is what you refer to as "intellectual games" (some would call it science).

Consider that 95% of your body - and all life on Earth - is composed of hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon. These are three of the four most common elements in the universe (we don't need helium). That could lead one to make the reasonable assumption that the substances of life are damned near everywhere. Throw in a nice liquid in which the elements can get jiggy, a little sunshine for energy, and you have the possibility of life.

Now consider that there are 10^24 planets, amny offering the possibility of life. With that many planets, and with the ubiquity of the required elements, it would fall on you to provide a reason why the numbers are misleading. You must supply a reason why Earth is the only planet in the universe which contains life. And "we haven't found it" is not a valid reason.
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