Politics or Not Politics?

Over on a music board I monitor, there's a strict "no politics" rule. People generally have respected this rule over the years, as the board administrators have pointed out there are plenty of other places on the internet to discuss politics. During the Bush years and Obama years it was almost unheard of to see blatantly political posts.

Now however in Trump's first week, there have been a flurry of posts that have flagged as "political." They have dealt with stuff like global warming, immigrants, tweeting, attacks on the media... stuff that isn't particularly "political" and under a normal administration would not even be issues. But Trump is so far off the reservation, on so many issues, that defining what is "political" based on what Trump has done or said opens up a whole new universe of things that cannot be discussed. Reality checks are now political. Science is now political. Any suggestion that news organizations need to fact-check their coverage is now political. Coral reef die-offs are now political. Judges making judgements are now political. Singers and actors making speeches during awards shows are now political.

Other people have requested "no politics" in our discussions. Thanks to Trump the list of things we cannot discuss is growing daily.

I belong to a music forum with a "no politics" rule as well. A few years ago — it was before Obama — the admins loosened up due to popular pressure. A week or two of the results and everyone was clamoring to bring back censorship.

I belong to a forum for pool players that has a "Non Pool Related" topic where all political crap must go. If it gets posted in the wrong place, it is immediately deleted and the poster is in danger of being banned. I have glanced at the topic maybe five times over the years and I see the same dozen or so posters - out of 58,000 registered members.

My point was -- poorly stated since you both missed it -- that "politics" is no longer just political news anymore with this administration.

Science is now political. Settled law is now political.  Logic and reason and verified facts are now political.

By expanding the range of politics to include what Donald Trump believes are "issues" in this world, from "fake news" to "fake facts," "fake science," "fake polling," "fake moon landings," "fake judicial decisions" to "fake reality," the opening of public discussion to CONSIDERING or even ACCEPTING Donald Trump/Breitbart's alternate view of reality as possible -- not ludicrous -- is a sad crumbling of shared consensus.

Fox News this morning is decrying the Busch Beer ad from the Super Bowl which showed an immigrant Mr. Busch making good in America.  "Keep politics out of sports!" they say.  So here's the discussion in miniature:  suddenly, immigrants making good in America is "political"???

The Republican Party began using everything as wedge issues several decades ago. Since then, everything has been political. Not really anything new. Expanded maybe, but not new.

It works out very well for the administration and its supporters. So does chaos.

Welcome to the Breitbart interpretation of reality. Fun house mirrors everywhere.

_Howard wrote:

The Republican Party began using everything as wedge issues several decades ago. Since then, everything has been political. Not really anything new. Expanded maybe, but not new.

I disagree.

I don't think Trump is a normal Republican, not even an "expanded" one. He's on a fundamentally different plane when it comes to what he believes is true and untrue. We have never had a public official before -- much less a president -- who does not share a consensus view of reality.

I wasn't talking about Trump.

You disagree? You haven't noticed the Republicans turning everything into wedge issues?

Never mind. I have re-read my posts and think they are clear.

Your posts are clear, and I agree with them. I just don't accept that the politicization of so many matters is new. But you are certainly right that people are now more outspoken about the issues, especially those who take a right wing position.

I wonder how loudly those who complain about the Busch ad would scream if the ad showed Grandpa Drumpf immigrating from Germany.

Quote :

But you are certainly right that people are now more outspoken about the issues, especially those who take a right wing position.

I wonder if it was that way during the rise of the Tea Party but we, as members of the elite, were never really exposed to it? I know a lot of those people hated and feared Obama as much as some on the left now do Trump.

Those people were fed a constant stream of bullshit from the GOP (and Fox News, of course). They were disconnected from reality.

kilo wrote:

I wonder if it was that way during the rise of the Tea Party but we, as members of the elite, were never really exposed to it?  I know a lot of those people hated and feared Obama as much as some on the left now do Trump.

I don't think I've ever been part of any elite.

Basically, the Republican party solidified into a "demean, decry and lie about all Democrats" party during the Clinton administration. Led by their in-house perverts, they settled on a strategy of personal attack, which has just gotten worse and worse over the last 20-odd years. These days, they don't try and contest things on the basis of policy (arguably, they can't, because since Reagan was elected, they have been slavishly following an economic dogma that is garbage, and has failed every test). Did the Shrub campaign against Gore's policies? No, they basically said he lied about creating the internet (when actually, he was instrumental in creating and passing laws that enabled the internet, which was all he really said). Did he campaign against Kerry on policy? No, all you heard were the Swift boat lies. Did they produce any alternative policies to Obama? No, all they set out to do was stop him from doing anything (not surprisingly, failing even at that miserable goal). And how about the campaign against Hillary Clinton? What was the shining policy promise? "Repeal Obamacare, and replace it with something wonderful". In 8 years, they haven't even come close to defining an alternative, not surprising since Obamacare was a Republican idea, and any sensible alternative would be more "socialist" than what they currently have. Meanwhile, emails, health scares, and Pizzagate.

It's all so obviously stupid and dishonest that it's hard to believe anybody could fall for it, but then, there are still people who think Reagan was a great president and Bill and Hillary murdered people in Arkansas. The Republicans have cornered the market on stupid voters.

Exactly. Well said, Richard.

I hope you read my use of "elite" with the irony tag in place. I think my crime may have been to have gone to college.

I think that "elite" now just means "not very insane".

_Howard wrote:

I think that "elite" now just means "not very insane".

We have gone from Camelot, where we elected "the best and the brightest," to present day where we elect people we'd like to have a beer with.

Simple people. Uneducated people. Unsophisticated people. People who break everything down into yes/no questions, require one paragraph summaries of complex world issues, people who sleep through cabinet meetings and can't be bothered with intelligence briefings.

We are ruled by Bubbas with pickup trucks, gun racks and beer hats.

NoCo wrote:

We have gone from Camelot, where we elected "the best and the brightest," to present day where we elect people we'd like to have a beer with.

Absolutely. The politics of anti-intellectualism, Mall-Wart, and resentment. Duck Dynasty, Honey Boo Boo, and The Apprentice.

NoCoPilot wrote:

We have gone from Camelot, where we elected "the best and the brightest," to present day where we elect people we'd like to have a beer with.

We are certainly electing anti-intellectual assholes, but none that I would want to have a beer with.

Of course we should remember that GW Bush and the Lump are teetotalers.

That explains a lot.