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 Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It

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_Howard
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:00 pm

Yeah. The unicorn bit is what I was thinking of.

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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:03 pm

Wall Street Journal is reporting that Atari, whose logo shows up prominently in the BR 2049 previews, plans to leverage the exposure into a major comeback.

I was not aware they were still in business. Apparently they have 18 employees now.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:07 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:42 pm

Interesting article. I just finished reading - again- Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. This is probably the third time I have read the book since seeing the movie (several times). Oddly, this is the first time I noticed that many of the characters' names had been changed for the movie. This is just a trivial matter, though.

All of the differences the article mentioned are things that I took note of while reading the book. The differences are broad enough that the two media may be enjoyed without reference to the other.

As for it being a mindfuck, that could apply to most of Dick's novels.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:08 pm

7:00 showing tonight, IMAX.

Bob Mondello reviewed it for NPR, said you should see it in the biggest screen available and that it's better than the original.

Big words.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:43 pm

_Howard wrote:
Blade Runner does not need a sequel.
While this is undeniably true, Blade Runner 2049 does explain WHY Ridley Scott and everyone else finally consented to it -- 35 years after the original.

It's a worthy successor.

I won't give away any plot points, of which there are many and they're carefully considered and canon-consistent and thought-provoking.  I will only give my high-level reactions.

Cons:

  • There isn't any humor in it.  The first movie carried itself along with a few well-placed light moments.  This one is oppressively serious.
  • Consistent with the movie's overall darkness, Los Angeles in 2049 is an even worse ecological disaster than it was in 2019.  One has to wonder how ANYBODY continues to live there.
  • Some of the situations were a little, okay more than a little confusing.  I'll be trying to parse out the details of the plot for another week.  Will have to see it 2-3 more times.
  • The references to the first movie started subtle.  I would've liked it if they'd stayed subtle.  By the last 1/3 they were overt... and didn't really need to be.
  • The pacing of the editing was hurry-up-and-wait.  Lots of things happened quickly, then we'd get into a prolonged lull.  In places the movie even seemed to drag.  Unlike the arc of the original, which pretty much sped up as it went along, this one was fast-slow-fast-slow.
  • Acting?  What acting?  This is an action picture.  No real emotions anywhere (tears notwithstanding).

Pros:
  • Continuity with the original is maintained.  Same mood, same sound design (only better), fully consistent.
  • Sound design was outstanding.  See it in a big theater with a great sound system.
  • Graphics/special effects were occasionally jaw-dropping.  Not easy to still drop jaws, but they managed.  See it on the biggest screen you can find.
  • Music was not by Vangelis, but some of his themes were used and a very similar aura is generated -- which is to say IT WAS GREAT.
  • Plot seemed to begin resolving in the first 1/3, but twists and turns keep the audience guessing.  Wrongly, mostly.
  • I like movies that make me think, that I have to see multiple times.  I'll be digesting this gourmet meal of a movie for a long time.
  • It's good to see Harrison Ford again.  Although he's getting a little long in the tooth.  Will another Indiana Jones have him teaching paleontology to a son?
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:13 pm

NoCo wrote:
Acting? What acting? This is an action picture.

You lost me with this. (I'll probably watch in anyway; as soon as it's on DVD)
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:22 am

Well, I went and saw it on Imax. I have to say, it did not blow me away.

Musically, I found it painful. While there were some chords from Vangelis mixed in, much of the sound seemed to me to be just very loud and somewhat like a mammoth trumpeting, if a mammoth sounded similar to an elephant, only louder and deeper. And an elephant is usually more melodic.

Visually, some of the same critique applies. The tone is continued from the original, true. But much of it is rather gray and monotonic, which was never an impression the first movie gave me. And where the movie does hit the streets (all too briefly), the oversized holograms etc seem too bright and overdone. Perhaps that was just the contrast between the inner city and the rest.

And the plot is nonsensical. Twists I can deal with, and I don't have a problem with any of that. I have a serious problem with the whole base of the plot, which I won't go into just now because spoilers.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:17 am

I am anxious to begin discussions with someone with whom I can share spoilers. I have some questions.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:54 am

Spoil away, gentlemen. By the time I see the movie, I will have forgotten everything you say here.

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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:59 pm

NoCoPilot wrote:
richard09 wrote:
Blade Runner Black Out 2022
Why should I have to download an anime app to watch a Bladerunner prequel?  Nonsensical.
Ah, because "Blade Runner 2022: The Black Out" is animated.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:51 am

NoCoPilot wrote:
Ah, because "Blade Runner 2022: The Black Out" is animated.

The problem is not that it's animated. The video at the link Richard gave us requires Adobe Flash. I have never installed Flash on this computer, so it wouldn't play for me either.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:57 am

Yeah, that too.  Flash is a security disaster.

Okay, here goes. It’s a given in this movie that Deckard is a replicant. This was a matter of much controversy in 1982, with many people feeling that a replicant would not hunt replicants, and that he couldn’t be a Nexus 6 if he was already retired from the police force. However with the release of the director’s cut in 1992, I thought Ridley Scott explained this quite cleverly. When Voight-Kampffing Rachel at Tyrell, Deckard gives away the clue when he says “How can it not know what it is?” Deckard himself doesn’t know he’s a replicant — until the moment he stumbles across Gaff’s origami unicorn. It is at that moment that he realizes he and Rachel are the same species. All his memories of being an ex-Blade Runner must be implants.

So in the new movie he explains “They were hunting us.” Apparently Gaff’s lenience in letting Deckard and Rachel escape was not shared by the rest of the police force? Once he finds out he’s a replicant I guess that means he becomes dangerous? If this is so, why would Gaff clue him into his identity?

Yet there’s a substantial underground colony of escaped replicants, led by the one-eyed woman Freysa (who removed her own eye to avoid detection.) Deckard apparently was never part of this group. He's gone to great lengths to hide in a booby-trapped radioactive city -- while all the other replicants simply live in the sewers?

Deckard's daughter, Dr. Ana Stelline (the memory creator) -- is she human or replicant? Miraculously born of two 'experimental' replicants (who indeed turn out to be "more human than human"), would she carry the lineage of the human gametes which her parents must have carried? Is that why she's genetically defective, and has no immune system? If she was born, I guess that makes her human (no serial numbers on her)? (I don't buy Lieutenant Joshi's explanation of there being a "soul" but certainly being born would make you not a replicant, wouldn't it? Interesting conjecture...)

The memories that Stelline creates, she can tell real memories from created ones. And yet, when K allows her to peer into his memory of the wooden horse and the orphanage, she doesn't react except to cry a little. If this was a REAL memory, one of her memories, wouldn't she have had a very strong reaction to meeting someone else with her memory?

But if she was raised in an orphanage, what about her immune deficiency? Wouldn't that have manifested earlier than age 7?

She says the room she lives in was created for her when her deficiency became apparent. By whom? Her mother was dead, her father had never met her, and she was an inmate in an orphanage. If it was the Wallace Corporation, why are they looking for the miracle replicant baby when they've got her caged already?

When K is looking at the DNA of the replicant baby, he discovers that two identical sets exist, one male and one female (that's bad biology, but nevermind). The records say the girl died and the boy is still alive -- leading him (and the audience) to believe that he might be that missing baby. Later Deckard says he scrambled the records. So maybe the girl didn't die, and K is really the replicant decoy created from Ana's DNA and implanted with her memories.

Last: At the tail end of the film, when K is fighting the evil replicant bitch Luv while Deckard is chained in the car, she yells to K something like, "You were always the best one." The "best one" what? The better of him and his identical twin sister? I thought at that moment that maybe Luv was his sister. But no, the film went another direction.

Online speculations I hadn't even considered:

  • Ana isn't genetically defective at all, she was placed in the protective bubble for her own safety
  • Ana placed her memories in lots of replicants, in the hopes that one of them would lead her father to her
  • The prostitute Mariette picks up K's horse figurine because she's heard about it before from other replicant customers
  • Mariette places the tracking device in K's coat because she's working undercover(!) for Wallace, who's looking for replicants with horse memories


Still mulling over so many plotpoints, trying to make sense of it. Will see it again Tuesday.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:18 pm

I try to connect the book with the movie in the argument over whether Deckard was an android. The book makes it clear that he was not. The first movie leaves a bit of ambiguity which, according to the screenwriter, was intentional. He says that he wrote Deckard as a human, but threw in the ambiguity for grins.

Getting back to basics; Remember that the Voigt-Kampff test is a test for empathy - something that is missing in all androids. The Nexus 6 brain is better at faking that emotion, which makes the Voigt-Kampff difficult to assess.

The lack of empathy in the androids extends to other androids and, yes, one android will kill another. In the book, there was one police station that was infested with androids, including a high-ranking officer. They had their own bounty hunters. They have no problem hunting and killing other androids.

Deckard, especially in the book, often displays empathy; once toward a man he believed to be an android. This alone should indicate that Deckard is not an android.

As to his hasty departure with Rachael. It was illegal for a human to have sex with an android (although, on the off-planet colonies, it was commonly overlooked). So when Deckard found the origami and realized Gaff knew about he and Racheal bumping uglies, he knew it was time to hit the road. He was also concerned about Rachael's well-being. An android would not have been concerned and would not put himself in jeopardy for her (no empathy, remember).

That's as far as I can go without seeing the new movie. They will have to have something more to change my opinion that Deckard was human.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:42 pm

The point of the second movie, and to some degree the point of the first movie, is to make you question whether androids can be more empathetic than humans.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:55 pm

I certainly didn't see that question rise in the first movie. The androids there were anything but empathetic. The single possible show of empathy by an android in the first movie was when Roy Baty pulled Deckard back up onto the roof. But Baty's intention may have been to have an audience for his dying words, rather than the saving of a human life. Baty was not hesitant about killing other humans, sometimes seemingly for no good reason (other than maybe anger).

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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:12 pm

Rachel shot Leon to save Deckard.

Roy played with Deckard in the final fight, not killing him during several chances. And of course he saves him in the end.

Roy and Pris are visibly upset when Leon and Zhora are killed, and Roy is inconsolable when Pris is killed (by a non-empathetic human. Or maybe he's not human.)
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:29 pm

I haven't seen the movie in several years; maybe I should watch it again for a refresher course.

Or maybe I am confusing the movie with the book, in which none of those things happened.

I am easily confused.

Do you really think that Roy "playing with Deckard" in the final fight is a show of empathy? Our cat, Elinor, used to play with mice before killing and eating them. I never considered the playing to be a show of empathy.

When Leon and Zhora are killed, Pris and Roy may have been upset because they knew they were next on the list. I don't think we can ascribe all of their concern to empathy.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:26 pm

Watch it again.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:44 pm

_Howard wrote:
Do you really think that Roy "playing with Deckard" in the final fight is a show of empathy? Our cat, Elinor, used to play with mice before killing and eating them. I never considered the playing to be a show of empathy.

When Leon and Zhora are killed, Pris and Roy may have been upset because they knew they were next on the list. I don't think we can ascribe all of their concern to empathy.

I think that Roy didn't want to kill or to be killed. "Playing with" Deckard and later saving him was just not wanting to kill him. And sadness over the deaths of the other androids was just that. So yes, I vote empathy. And that was kind of the point: If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? Roy was human, by almost any standard.

And understanding that, Deckard realized that going off with Rachael was a human thing to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:53 pm

richard09 wrote:
I think that Roy didn't want to kill or to be killed.
He'd already seen five of his compatriots dispatched, and gone to great lengths to "meet his maker" who shot down all of his suggestions for extending his life. Roy knew his own end was imminent -- he had to push a spike through his hand to keep his senses alive -- so whether or not Deckard killed him was pretty much immaterial. IN the end he acknowledged the worthy fight Deckard put up against him, even as he was dying of "natural causes."
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:59 am

New York Times wrote:
The expensive science-fiction sequel “Blade Runner 2049” collapsed at the North American box office over the weekend, taking in $31.5 million, or roughly 30 percent less than analysts had expected, as younger audiences and women failed to materialize in sizable numbers.
Associated Press wrote:
The problem "Blade runner 2049" ran into is clear from opening-weekend data. The audience was overwhelmingly male (71 percent) and over the age of 25 (86 percent). The movie, starring Ryan Gosling and Harrison Ford, simply failed to pull in moviegoers beyond fans of the 1982 original.
I guess this explains why all movies these days seem to be aimed at under-25 women.

This does not bode well for a sequel.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:57 am

The BR2049 soundtrack was released 10-6-17 as a digital download, actual physical CDs wont be available for a couple more weeks and it'll be a numbered, limited edition (limited to 2049 copies worldwide).  It's a 2-CD set, and in addition to Hans Zimmer's score they include the songs by Sinatra and Presley used in the film.

If you strip out the Sinatra, Presley and the crap pop song that ran over the titles, the resulting CD-R clocks in at 1:15:40 -- perfect for a single disc!
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:13 am

OH MY FUCKING WORD.  Playing the soundtrack over my stereo is a spine tingling, hair raising, awe inspiring experience.  There are some low notes in there that shake the floor, that scare away moles.  There are SO MANY elements mixed in, from Tuvan throat singing to turntableism to electronic drones to neoclassical tone poems.  Hans Zimmer’s score is respectful of Vangelis’s original but goes oh so much farther.

I’m a fan of drones.  Robert Rich, Steve Roach, David Helpling, Craig Padilla, David Sylvian, Kerovnian, Jean-Baptiste Barriere, etc.  I like to think I have a pretty good handle on what’s available out there.  But holy shit, Zimmer’s score is easily one of the best collections of moaning wailing electronics I’ve ever heard.

Even if there had been no movie attached I would have fallen in love with this score.
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PostSubject: Re: Blade Runner 2 Adds Robin Wright in Flagrant Bid to Make Me Consider Seeing It   Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:39 pm

The ambiguities in the movie makes it certain that people will disagree on subjects such as the  potential for empathy in the androids, as well as whether or not Deckard was one. For me, there are no actions by Roy Baty or the other androids that absolutely require empathy as the driving force. Because the androids are defined as not having the ability for empathy, and that the test for androids is a test for empathy, I must move toward the position of no empathy when there is an ambiguity. That's just the way I see it.
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