New Turntable

I think I'm going to buy a new used turntable today.

MY SL-10 has always had an annoying thump every revolution (which I haven't been able to diagnose) and the PS-FL7II I bought to replace it isn't quite as cool as I'd hoped. It has a tray for LPs which slides out like a CD player. Looks cool, but it means you CANNOT clean the stylus and it's damn hard to clean the LP.

My favorite used hi-fi store has a SL-6 in stock. Might have to go look at it -- I like the design a lot more.

Actually I also have a second older SL-10 for parts, and 3-4 pieces of other equipment I should probably get rid of (a tuner, a crossover, a pre-amp, two CD players...) Maybe I can do this thing for minimal cash outlay.

Sounds like you really go for the linear tracking. I've never had one, so can't really comment. A friend had one of the Sony tray loaders years ago, I don't know what the model was, but it sounds similar to what you had. He said it was great -- when it was working. The last time I saw it, it was in a trash bin.

Yeah, but I'm not married to it. We'll see what they recommend.

Well, I looked at all their standard TTs and still came home with the SL-6. Just not ready to deal with an old-fashioned pivot-arm design yet.

They took in my SL-10 for evaluation (TT guy isn't in until tomorrow) and if it's not too bad they'll give me some money for it. So in essence, I traded in a higher model for a lower.

It works though -- sounds pretty good to these old ears.

Guess I'll Craigslist the rest of the crap.

Playing some LPs today. I have a couple I want to make CDRs of, and a bunch I just haven't listened to in years. Plus I'm going to be working on cataloging my collection so I can consider selling it off.

Personally, although this table sounds darn good -- no rumble, no hums, nice definition on the high end, good solid bass -- in short nearly a perfect turntable sound -- I still don't buy that vinyl is even 60% as good as CDs. I still hear pops, I hear surface noise, I hear limitations in FR.

These kids, they have it all wrong.

Just out of curiosity: Why are you bothering making CDs from what you consider to be an inferior source? Why not just buy the CDs?

N/A

N/A?

Not Applicable?
No Answer?
Never Again?
Null Assertion?
Necktie Askew?
Nazi Addendum?
Nibbling Abuse?
Noisy Adenoids?
Nigerian Abacus?

I'm confused (negatively aware).

Not Available on CD or I would buy it

NoCoPilot wrote:

Just not ready to deal with an old-fashioned pivot-arm design yet.

Pivot arms are not as old-fashioned as linear drive.

Don't mock old things, granddad.

Having listened to my new turntable nearly all day, I gotta say it has a nice neutral pleasant sound. Nothing objectionable. 100% successful tracking records so far.

Do you think that linear tracking makes a difference in what you hear? I know that they are a lot easier to set up than pain-in-the-ass pivot arms, but I wonder if they make a difference to the ears.

All this talk of turntables led me to go look in the far end of the stacks. I pulled out the Beatles Rarities (1980).

Some mono tracks and some stereo. But all sound exactly right. That's the only term that seems appropriate. Maybe I'm not getting the high-spec reproduction of a CD, but I wouldn't want it to sound any different from how it does on vinyl. Not because it's vinyl, but because it's right.

Damn. I could not hear one pop or scratch on that album. It hasn't been out of the sleeve in close to thirty years, and sounds new.

Time to drag out Cheap Thrills and see how well that one has survived. No doubt better than the first copy of it I had. After a few months in the trunk of my car, it was shaped like a lace doily. Too bad. That first record was given to me by the wife (girl friend?) of Don Wilson, guitar player and founder of The Ventures.

_Howard wrote:

Do you think that linear tracking makes a difference in what you hear?

No.

Any decent table these days is bound to sound good.  I've never heard objectionable artifacts on any table since the mid-'60s -- when my tables WEREN'T decent.

The things that matter to me, these days, are ease of use.  Sexy looks.  Price.  (Women as well as TTs...)

With the SL-6 I slap on a platter, give it a quick clean with the Discwasher, and close the lid.  Hit "Start".

It plays all the way through and stops playing when the disc is over.

I'm not prepared to buy a manual tonearm, where I have to pick up the needle, drop it on the record, sit down to listen, then get up to pick up the needle after the record is over.  I'm retired.  I haven't got time for that nonsense anymore.

_Howard wrote:

But all sound exactly right. That's the only term that seems appropriate.

Been cataloging my 'B' records today, so I have been playing trumpeter Ruby Braff and trombonist Bobby Brookmeyer.

Now, granted these are recordings from 1956 to 1976 or so, but CDs of recordings from the same era have more 'brass bite.' On LP the square waves are rounded -- warmer -- less biting. It *is* a pleasant AM-radio kind of mellowness, but it's a step farther removed from the sound of a real live band.

Is it pleasant? Yes, frankly. Less edgy.

Do I prefer it? Well, it's the difference between Kraft singles and a good aged Asiago. Between a craft IPA and Bud Light. Between a supermodel named Amy and the woman I've been married to for 27 years. Wait, is this comparison even making sense anymore?

The only halfway-decent turntable I ever had was a Pioneer PL12D, well known back in the early seventies for being as good as turntables costing 2 or 3 times as much. And in student days, cost was a major factor.

Pioneer used to make some very nice equipment, and at a reasonable price. Too bad they quit doing business over here for so long. They're back now, but looking at their web site, it appears that they have taken the same path as all other large brands, and just stuffing a box full of outsourced components.

NoCoPilot wrote:

Is it pleasant?  Yes, frankly.  Less edgy.

Do I prefer it?  Well, it's the difference between Kraft singles and a good aged Asiago.  Between a craft IPA and Bud Light.  Between a supermodel named Amy and the woman I've been married to for 27 years.  Wait, is this comparison even making sense anymore?

While I think your comparisons are a bit excessive, you are absolutely right: it's all a matter of taste.
With a properly mastered CD and a properly mastered LP, you certainly can hear differences. But the only thing that matters is which one you personally prefer. In most cases, I prefer CDs. But there are some recordings where I prefer the vinyl. I have CD dupes of much of my vinyl recordings. For the most part, either one is just fine. But there are some where I much prefer the LP.

I hardly ever read liner notes unless I have a specific item I want to check (who's playing the bass, etc.) Yesterday I read the liner notes on the Rarities album for the first time. I've never looked at them before. Some interesting stuff. On some of the cuts, the Beatles had stereo recordings remastered to mono. Yeah, I know: Heresy!

If you have the LP or ever run across one, read the liner notes. Very interesting what they did.

NoCoPilot wrote:

With the SL-6 I slap on a platter, give it a quick clean with the Discwasher, and close the lid.  Hit "Start".

It plays all the way through and stops playing when the disc is over.

I'm not prepared to buy a manual tonearm, where I have to pick up the needle, drop it on the record, sit down to listen, then get up to pick up the needle after the record is over.  I'm retired.  I haven't got time for that nonsense anymore.

With my mid-range, (at least)30-yeqr-old swivel-arm turntable, When I move the tone arm, the TT turns on; I place the stylus on the record, close the lid, sit back and enjoy. When the record is finished, the tone arm lifts up and returns to the rest, then the TT shuts off. Little difference between placing the tone arm and pushing a start button. But I congratulate on your ability to save even the most minuscule of effort. I have been working toward that for many years. Do you hold seminars?

A question just occurred to me: How does a linear arm perform if the whole turntable is just a bit off level? I know some swivel tone arms can be adversely affected by level.

_Howard wrote:

Do you hold seminars?

I'd consider it if it wasn't so damn much trouble.

The Technics linear arm turntables are what is called "dynamically balanced" (whatever that means) and because of that they play in any position - flat, angled, vertical, even upside down I think. They are essentially impervious to placement.

At least, that was true of my SL-10. My new SL-6 is a bit simpler -- when the lid is closed, there isn't a clamp that comes down over the record to hold it in place. I discovered, on my trip home with it, that if you turn it upside down the platter slips off the spindle.

And the SL-6 has its controls on the front of the bottom half of the clamshell, instead of on the top of the top half of the clamshell as in the SL-10. Therefore, you couldn't operate it vertically. I decided I didn't even want to operate it at 45 degrees (using the angled ramps I used with my SL-10) because that made it hard to use the controls.

But simpler is not necessarily bad.

My old SL-10 made a pronounced locking sound when you closed the lid, like closing a suitcase. In order to open it again you had to depress a lever. The SL-6 lid just rests in the down position, and you can open it like a standard turntable dust cover.

Except the arm comes up with it.

_Howard wrote:

I hardly ever read liner notes unless I have a specific item I want to check (who's playing the bass, etc.) Yesterday I read the liner notes on the Rarities album for the first time. I've never looked at them before. Some interesting stuff. On some of the cuts, the Beatles had stereo recordings remastered to mono. Yeah, I know: Heresy!

If you have the LP or ever run across one, read the liner notes. Very interesting what they did.

I have a copy of Rarities, I'll have to re-read the notes.  I used to LOVE to read the liner notes, that was what I did while a record was playing: read the notes, examine the cover, enjoy the artwork.

With CDs, meh, not so much.  Plus most of them I've already read at least once.

The way a linear arm works, there's a turning shaft from the center of the LP to the outside.  Riding on that shaft is a tiny little tone arm, just long enough (1-1/2") to hold a cartridge and reach the LP from an inch above it.  As the record rotates, and the needle wends its way inward, the tonearm floats inward with it on the turning shaft.

Because of this, lubrication of the shaft is critical.  If it gets dry or caked the tonearm hangs up and skips.

A normal tonearm pivots based on inward pressure from the stylus too, but the tonearm is something like 12" long and weighs considerably more.  Granted, the pivot joint is low friction, so this usually isn't a problem.  Linear arms will usually track warped records better than a pivot arm, because they're freer to move up & down with less mass, but as a rule I don't seek out warped records.

Also, linear arms always move across the LP at exactly 90 degrees (like the arm in a cutting lathe), if your shaft is lubricated.  Pivot arms start out at slightly less than 90 degrees and end up at slightly more than 90 at the end of the record.  Again, this is usually not a problem, the theory is not as important as practice.

Bottom line: always keep your shaft well lubricated.

NoCoPilot wrote:

Linear arms will usually track warped records better than a pivot arm, because they're freer to move up & down with less mass...

I thought they tracked warped records better because they are less free to   move up and down; that is, the spring supplies a more consistent tracking force than does gravity.