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 Guns Gotta Go

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_Howard
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PostSubject: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyFri Jun 19, 2015 3:16 pm

When shit like this continues to happen, isn't it time for the damned government to do something about the obscene proliferation of guns in this country? When will  the left wing grow a set of balls and when will the right wing show some intelligence and empathy? All they give a shit about is getting re-elected. And black people will continue to be slaughtered by police and by assholes who think slavery and apartheid are just dandy.

For many years, I thought it was okay for people to have guns, even though I didn't (excluding one period when I, unfortunately, had a specific need for one). I no longer feel that way, and haven't for a long time. Because of where I live, I have been encouraged - even by the police - to keep a gun in the house. I have declined. Okay, there are a couple of partly-disassembled "souvenirs" in the garage, but they are not usable without substantial work, so I don't count them as weapons.

Fuck the NRA and fuck the second amendment. I'm all for outlawing all guns in the country. Take away the guns people claim they need for protection. Take away the hunting rifles. Take away the shotguns used for skeet shooting (what has a skeet every done to you?). And, yes, take them away from the cops, too. We're the only so-called modern country in the world that has this kind of problem. Time for this shit to cease.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyFri Jun 19, 2015 4:48 pm

I agree 100% but without a substantial shift in culture, it won't happen.

I used to work with 4 gun collectors. They took me to gun shops (against my wishes) on our lunch hour. Many hours at work were devoted to discussing weapons they owned, or wished to buy, or how to modify the ones they had to make them more deadly.

I never understood it. We never showered together so I can only speculate.
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_Howard
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyFri Jun 19, 2015 5:02 pm

Don't confuse gun collectors with gun nuts. I had a cousin who collected old guns, and made a fortune in the long run. He had a federal license for gun purchases and sales, and only made legal transactions. If he wanted to shoot something, he could always go out on his boat. The boat was the USS Saint Paul, and he was the Gun Boss. Nothing like firing eight-inch guns to satisfy one's craving for noise.

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Jenni
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyFri Jun 19, 2015 7:42 pm

At this point I'm not opposed. It's just too ridiculous. No
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_Howard
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySat Jun 20, 2015 10:29 am

I don't understand your post, Jenni. Are you saying you're not opposed to the removal of guns from society?
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Jenni
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySat Jun 20, 2015 1:43 pm

_Howard wrote:
I don't understand your post, Jenni. Are you saying you're not opposed to the removal of guns from society?
Yes, I am without if's and's or butt's entirely agreeing with your proposal.

If I want to feel safe I can get a taser, it's not worth the violence and bloodshed. Good people like me want their guns for hobby purposes. I do resent that the bar has to be raised because a bunch of fucking idiots can't control themselves. But at this point, this country seems to have accepted these occasional random killings as par for the course and that disgusts me. Loss of civilian life for no reason like this, loss that can be prevented, makes me angry. Our lives are precious. That's all we have. I'm done with it. I don't want to be on that side of history anymore. I can no longer in good conscience argue for these fools to have access to guns. I will hand mine over and encourage others to do the same.
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_Howard
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySat Jun 20, 2015 1:58 pm

Unfortunately, most laws are passed because of the actions of a few.

I recall you mentioning that you carried a pistol, so I didn't know how you would take to this proposal. I am glad to hear that you would carry a taser. You might be more safe with one. When you pull a gun on someone, you can't hesitate; you can't consider the results of your action. Afterward, you will have a lifetime to think about it. Sucks. With the taser, you can just go ahead and pop the bastard. He'll get over it and so will you.
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Jenni
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySat Jun 20, 2015 7:35 pm

_Howard wrote:
I recall you mentioning that you carried a pistol, so I didn't know how you would take to this proposal. I am glad to hear that you would carry a taser. You might be more safe with one. When you pull a gun on someone, you can't hesitate; you can't consider the results of your action. Afterward, you will have a lifetime to think about it. Sucks. With the taser, you can just go ahead and pop the bastard. He'll get over it and so will you.
Exactly.

I did carry a pistol. It came out of my purse the other day when I heard about this last shooting. I was headed that direction already. As Todd and I have discussed I'm just getting to the point where I just don't think anything I have is worth someone's life- cept maybe my animals. I wouldn't advise fucking with my animals. But other than that I'm totally harmless.
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richard09

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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyWed Oct 07, 2015 11:01 am

I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. What's the betting that she won't be charged with a crime?

Good woman with a gun shoots up Home Depot parking lot trying to take down suspected shoplifters
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyWed Oct 07, 2015 11:07 am

The existing stats are scary enough:
Quote :
Every day, 297 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, unintentional shootings, and police intervention.

Every day, 89 people die from gun violence:

   31 are murdered
   55 kill themselves
   2 are killed unintentionally
   1 is killed by police intervention
   1 intent unknown.

Every day, 208 people are shot and survive:

   151 shot in an assault
   10 survive a suicide attempt
   45 are shot unintentionally
   2 are shot in a police intervention
The other stat that doesn't get publicized enough is this.  In thirty years, the number of "good citizens" who have been able to stop a mass shooting because they had armed themselves was zero.

The woman may well face charges -- she was not protecting herself, she was not in imminent danger. She was, in effect, taking over for the police without their training anc accountability. Therefore she should be charged, with reckless endangerment if not a felony.

Here's hoping she takes her case to court. Here's hoping the NRA backs her all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Court rules "a well-regulated militia" does not include soccer moms with concealed carry permits.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyWed Oct 07, 2015 11:14 am

richard09 wrote:
Good woman with a gun shoots up Home Depot parking lot trying to take down suspected shoplifters
That woman should be charged with attempted murder. There is no other definition for what she did. In most jurisdictions, one can only fire a weapon at another person in self defense; anything else is a crime.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyWed Oct 07, 2015 11:25 am

Getting a concealed carry permit is not the same as getting deputized.  Absolutely, attempted murder in the first degree.

Incidentally, details are emerging about the Oregon shooter and his access to guns -- this needs to blow up in the news. Big time.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyWed Oct 07, 2015 12:58 pm

"stockpiled weapons for fear of confiscation"

Now how much sense does that make? Does she think they will only confiscate a certain number of guns and you get to keep the excess?
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Jenni
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyFri Oct 09, 2015 7:35 pm

I guess about two weeks ago now, Ben's Criminal Justice class was given an assignment on the discussion board about the castle doctrine and stand your ground laws. After we wrote Ben's bit (yes, I help a little with phrasing) he literally messaged Ben to 'correct' him on the topic. Police dude is for this crap. Made like a video addressing it because so many disagreed with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 6:40 am

But as I understand it, even the ultra-permissive Stand Your Ground laws would not allow a citizen to use their firearm to attempt to stop a shoplifting at Home Depot. Is this correct?
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySat Jun 22, 2019 4:32 am

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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyTue Aug 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Why why why are people talking about buyback programs or confiscation?  Legal gun owners are not the problem.

What we need are registration and licensing. A small fee, about $20/yr, for a hunting rifle or a pistol. A bigger fee, $200/yr, for a machine gun. Moneys go to education programs, victims compensation, safety campaigns, etc.

Being caught with an unlicensed gun would be a felony, and lead to confiscation and prevention of future gun ownership.

Buying ammunition would require showing a valid license. Internet sales would be prohibited.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyWed Sep 04, 2019 10:05 am

San Francisco is taking a novel approach.  Not sure I entirely agree with it, but it should accomplish its goal of opening a discussion about what the NRA's role SHOULD be, as opposed to what they are doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 5:29 am

NoCoPilot wrote:
Why why why are people talking about buyback programs or confiscation?  Legal gun owners are not the problem.

What we need are registration and licensing. A small fee, about $20/yr, for a hunting rifle or a pistol. A bigger fee, $200/yr, for a machine gun. Moneys go to education programs, victims compensation, safety campaigns, etc.

Being caught with an unlicensed gun would be a felony, and lead to confiscation and prevention of future gun ownership.

Buying ammunition would require showing a valid license. Internet sales would be prohibited.
This issue came up at the 3rd Democratic debate, and the NRA wing of the Republican party is losing their minds because Beto O'Rourke, the only combat veteran on the stage, said he would make ownership of assault rifles illegal.

But this is entirely the wrong approach.  Yes, no civilian needs to own an assault rifle.  But nobody needs a car that goes 200 mph either, and they're perfectly legal (if insanely expensive).  LEGAL gun owners are not the problem.  Some guys just love the smell of a well-oiled machine gun.  It's a technological marvel.  It's dangerous and scary and makes your balls swell up.

But legal assault weapon owners are not going to carry it into a school yard.

The culture needs to change.

Selling an unlicensed gun should be treated the same way as dealing in child pornography.  Sure, it'll still happen but everyone should agree it's a Very Bad Thing when it does happen.  Legal gun owners, most of all, should feel personally responsible for maintaining the reputation of Gun Culture.

Guys should be free to own whatever they want -- without a license -- as long as they don't need ammunition for it. To buy ammunition the gun must have a valid yearly license. Simple. Clean. Honors the Second Amendment.

Giving the NRA ammunition (pun intended) by talking confiscation is just counter-productive. And all the Democrats are being painted with the Beto brush by Fox's bikini spokesmodels.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 7:36 am

Here's an interesting article about "11 times a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/good-guy-gun-stopped-bad-guy-gun/?page=1

Bear in mind the Washington Post is a right wing pro-gun propaganda paper, and eleven examples is all they could find.

  1. Jeanne Assam shot a gunman at a church.  Snopes notes that Assam is a former police officer (heavily trained) who was volunteering that day at that church as an armed guard.  Before she stopped him, the guy already killed four people and injured five more.
  2. Alton Nolen used a knife -- not a gun -- to behead a former co-worker at a food processing plant in an ISIS-inspired killing
  3. Two more ISIS-inspired gunman were killed by police who were laying in wait for them in Garland TX.  The attackers only managed to shoot an unarmed security guard in the ankle before being shot and killed
  4. Price Middle School (misidentified as Prince Middle School) was the scene where a student was treated & released after being shot in the neck by an off-duty police officer after brandishing a "small caliber pistol."  One teacher suffered "a minor injury while running away"
  5. A knife-wielding pair of acquaintances of a man who recently died tried to break into his mobile home to look for pain drugs, and were shot by his wife
  6. A 71-year old man shot numerous times at a pair of 19-year old holdup bandits, and missed them completely
  7. Ethel Jones shot a man breaking and entering into her home. He was unarmed
  8. A 14-year old Phoenix boy shot an armed intruder after a woman rang his doorbell.  The intruder did not get a shot off
  9. A pregnant woman in her "early 20s" shot at her estranged boyfriend and his 16-year old accomplice after she refused them entry and they kicked down her door.  They were unarmed
  10. A would-be robber was shot & injured by a clerk.  No shots were exchanged
  11. A 72-year old woman shot and missed at an unarmed man in her yard
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richard09

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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 4:28 pm

Washington Times and Washington Post are very different.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyTue Mar 23, 2021 5:29 pm

After last week's shootings at the Atlanta massage parlors, and this week's at the Boulder supermarket, I wondered if the country was finally getting back to normal after the pandemic.  I did not recall there being any mass shootings during 2020.

Boy was i wrong.

I guess they were just pushed off the news by the Trump debacles.

Anyway, Biden's a big proponent of gun control.  The Atlanta shooter purchased his gun the same day he used it, dunno about Boulder.  Guns are a scourge, but there are more guns already in private hands than there are people in the US.  Not bloody likely any of them will be confiscated -- and it's not the registered legal gun owners you have to worry about, for the most part.

I guess daily mass shootings is the price we pay for being a Wild West frontier country.  I don't see a solution.

A "good guy with a gun"?  He was one of the first people killed in Boulder.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyTue Mar 23, 2021 6:45 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyTue Mar 23, 2021 7:19 pm

NoCoPilot wrote:
The Atlanta shooter purchased his gun the same day he used it, dunno about Boulder. 
Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa bought the weapon on Tuesday, used it the following Monday.

Quote :
Alissa was sentenced to one year probation and 48 hours of community service after being found guilty of third-degree assault in 2018 for an incident that occurred the previous November, according to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation's database. The case stemmed from a incident in which a then-18-year-old Alissa was accused of attacking a classmate at Arvada West High School.

According to the arrest warrant, a woman identified as the suspect's sister-in-law "stated that (Ahmad Al Aliwi) Alissa was seen playing with a gun she thought looked like a 'machine gun' about 2 days ago. She did not believe the gun looked like the rifles she has seen in old Western movies. . . . Alissa had been talking about having a bullet stuck in the gun and was playing with the gun."

No word yet on where he bought his gun, but theoretically a background check would've raised alarms.
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PostSubject: Re: Guns Gotta Go   Guns Gotta Go EmptyTue Mar 23, 2021 8:03 pm

An assault weapons ban makes a lot of sense.  Give some incentive for owners to turn them in -- like a high licensing fee?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ar-15s-us-massacres/
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