HomeHome  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log in  

 

 Movie: Ex Machina

Go down 
3 posters
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptySun Apr 26, 2015 4:05 pm

I'm a sucker for AI movies so for my birthday I imposed on Mrs NoCo to take me out to this one. I love movies that explore what it means to be human, and what it might mean to humanhood if machines were included in the club.

This movie's premise is the uber-rich founder of the world's most popular search engine -- who instead of Google's Sergey Brin is Bluebook's Nathan something -- uses his vast wealth to create a humanoid robot. This robot falls in love with the Bluebook employee brought in to administer the Turing Test , and he falls in love with her. In the end the overwhelming instinct of this AI is self-preservation though -- at the expense of her creator and her true love.

The movie was glacially paced, and held few surprises. Some aspects of the story didn't quite gel, and some big opportunities were missed. The billionaire's house was basically a container ship container plopped down in the middle of the woods and butt ugly -- why?  

There are some pretty profound issues buried in this scenario, and I wish they'd been explored more.

Still, it wasn't awful.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptySun Jun 04, 2017 9:06 pm

My mention of this movie a couple days ago, as a movie with Big Ideas, made me want to see it again so I ordered the BRD.  All of my original criticisms from two years ago still apply -- a lot of missed golden opportunities -- and I would have greatly expanded the scope of the Turing test at the center of the piece -- and the low budget shows in too many places where some clever filmmaking could have hidden it -- but it's still a movie that makes you think.

Sorta like Her and Sim0ne.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 12:03 pm

I have never been able to get into artificial intelligence themed movies. Robots are fine - who could dislike R2D2? But I can't care at all about the concept of relationships between humans and computers. Her is probably the most ludicrous of these movies. I saw a teaser for it on tv and thought it was a comedy. I was surprised when I later read a small article and found it was supposed to be a serious drama/love story.

As I see it, Her is just a movie about a man with serious mental and/or emotional problems. Ex Machina sounds as though it's the same.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 pm

No, Lars and the Real Girl is a story about a man with serious mental and/or emotional problems. Lars falls in love with a sex doll and hauls it around to his friends' houses as "his girlfriend."

Her is the story of a guy (lonely, romantic, writes greeting cards for a living) who gets an AI which is 1000x more powerful than Siri. He starts out very skeptical but as the AI (voiced by Scarlett Johansson) engages him in conversations he slowly starts to see her as a person, not just an AI. Even knowing she has no physical presence he sorta falls in love with the idea of her, the human contact he was missing in his life.

Yeah, it's science fiction right now. Give it ten years though.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 12:34 pm

Ignoring the semantic disagreement, Her is about a man who thinks he has developed a relationship with a machine. I don't consider this to be science fiction, merely fiction. Absurd fiction.

None of my remarks are intended to indicate that it is not an enjoyable movie - after all, I haven't seen it. Nor are they to be considered aspersions cast on those who like the concept and the movie. Preferences in entertainment are totally subjective and I don't consider varying preferences reflective of individuals in any way.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 12:55 pm

It's easier to THINK you've developed a relationship with a machine when the machine is programmed to engage you in totally-convincing conversation.

People even did that with ELIZA.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 1:05 pm

If you know that you are communicating with a machine, it is still abnormal to believe that you have developed a relationship with the machine. That is a selective diversion from reality.



Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 1:10 pm

That's old school thinking. If the machine is truly intelligent -- or a good enough simulacrum to pass as truly intelligent -- then developing a relationship is not only possible, its logical.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 1:21 pm

Old school? Really? I would call it rational thinking.
You say, "If the machine is truly intelligent...". There is where we depart. Machines are not intelligent, truly or otherwise. Machines are one hundred percent non-intelligent. Some can be programmed - by human beings - to present certain characteristics that simulate an intelligence behind the actions. The supposed intelligence you mention is nothing more than the machine executing a set of pre-defined instructions. That's as far as a machine will ever go.

I'm afraid I must continue to assert that it is not logical for a human to believe that he or she can have a relationship with a machine. One may have a certain affection for a machine - a favorite set of wrenches, for example - but to believe that the affection is returned is not logical; it is a bit insane.


Last edited by _Howard on Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 1:24 pm

You need to educate yourself on the current state of AI. It's already well past that.

Whether or not a machine will truly experience emotion is an interesting question. They already exhibit intelligence, in limited tests.


Last edited by NoCoPilot on Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyMon Jun 05, 2017 1:25 pm

I am well aware of the current state of AI. I am also aware of the extreme limitations on the process.

Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyTue Jun 06, 2017 8:55 pm

Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyTue Jun 06, 2017 9:01 pm

Do you believe the brain is more than a collection of neurons, do you believe in a soul? Do you believe the human brain is something more than an expanded invertebrate brain, do you believe something magical happened when our brains reached some sort of omega point or tipping point?
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyWed Jun 07, 2017 8:38 am

I believe the brain is an organ that has evolved over time to meet changing requirements.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyWed Jun 07, 2017 11:00 am

You're ducking the question. Is the brain magical, or just a collection of neurons?
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyWed Jun 07, 2017 11:46 am

Oh, I thought the questions were rhetorical.

No, the brain isn't magical.

If you're trying to make a point, get on with it.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyWed Jun 07, 2017 1:55 pm

If the brain isn't magical, then it should be possible, one day, to build one.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyWed Jun 07, 2017 2:12 pm

Well, that's not necessarily true. There are many non-magical things that we cannot build now or ever.

Are you talking about building a biological brain? A living organism? Why would anyone want to do that? What would be the value in that?

If you are talking about building a mechanical brain, we would first need to know exactly how the human brain works. And we do not know that. And it may not be something that can be replicated mechanically.

When you consider artificial intelligence, always keep foremost in your mind the word artificial.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyThu Jun 08, 2017 9:19 pm

The point though, of so-called "artificial intelligence" is to try to get it so good that it's indistinguishable from non-artificial intelligence (what's that, "natural intelligence"?)

People vary greatly in their intelligence.  I have met people, and seen people on TV, who I would rate as no more smart than a talking bag of hammers.  I have played with AI simulacrum which, if not totally convincing, are at least a good bit more entertaining than the bag o' hammers.  

For AI to be worth anything, it'll have to be MORE intelligent than most humans.  There are Expert Systems (which I'm sure you're familiar with) in medicine and troubleshooting and manufacturing design that are already well beyond any human expert.  There are chess playing programs that beat grand masters.  There are IVRs that provide more nuanced responses than humans can provide.

Within closely defined limits, AI already exceeds human capability.

What you're on about is a generalized AI that can converse on any subject, choose a wine, do calculus and broker Mid-East peace.  That might be a tall order.  Eventually, all these specialized systems may be able to be combined, and eventually an AI will emerge that meets your requirements.  There is no barrier preventing this from happening, except time and money.

Will such a generalized AI experience emotions?  Will it reason?  Will it suffer mental disorders?  Will it decide to disobey its inferior flawed creators?

Only time will tell.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyThu Jun 08, 2017 9:28 pm

_Howard wrote:
There are many non-magical things that we cannot build now or ever.
I'd be curious to see a list here.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 9:47 am

This has gotten off the original subject about a movie in which a human being falls for a machine and perceives the machine as having feelings for him. Still a silly concept.

Oxford defines intelligence as
"The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills"

Merriam Webster defined artificial intelligence as
"the capability of a machine to imitate intelligent human behavior"

Pretty simple definitions, far from the current popular usage of the term.

NoCoPilot wrote:
There are Expert Systems (which I'm sure you're familiar with) in medicine and troubleshooting and manufacturing design that are already well beyond any human expert.

Within closely defined limits, AI already exceeds human capability.

In these cases, I would profer that the apparent improvement we see is a result of computer speed, not in raw capability.

Artificial intelligence is nothing more than a piece of software. AI works better today than it did a few decades ago when I was in grad school because of the speed and memory improvements in the hardware. These improvements have led to more investment in the area because the technology is now more efficient and profitable. How can you assert that a piece of software, written by humans, can exceed human capability in anything other than speed?
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 10:47 am

Because the new AI systems, which you say you know all about, are programmed to LEARN.

By the way, the AI in Ex Machina makes the subject believe she cares about him -- but in the end she uses him and then dumps him to free herself.  She may not have had any feelings at all, other than self-preservation.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 11:24 am

NoCoPilot wrote:
Because the new AI systems, which you say you know all about, are programmed to LEARN.

I have not claimed to know all about AI, just that I have some familiarity with it, as well as many other software systems (they make you learn those things before you get a diploma).

Machine learning can be very simple or very complex. Many years ago I created programs that certainly could have been defined as learning, but I just thought of them as being somewhat cleverly designed. And remember that the learning is a result of following instructions in the human-written code.

NoCoPilot wrote:
By the way, the AI in Ex Machina makes the subject believe she cares about him -- but in the end she uses him and then dumps him to free herself.  She may not have had any feelings at all, other than self-preservation.
See, there's the silliness. The man believes that the machine cares about him. He's an idiot. And applying human traits such as feelings to machines is not, in my opinion, valid or believable. They are machines, pure and simple.
Back to top Go down
NoCoPilot

NoCoPilot


Posts : 20158
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 69
Location : Seattle

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 11:29 am

You've obviously never fallen in love with a toothbrush.
Back to top Go down
_Howard
Admin
_Howard


Posts : 8734
Join date : 2013-01-16
Age : 79
Location : California

Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina EmptyFri Jun 09, 2017 12:50 pm

Not with a toothbrush, but I was one very attached to a 3/8"-drive pneumatic wrench.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Movie: Ex Machina Empty
PostSubject: Re: Movie: Ex Machina   Movie: Ex Machina Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Movie: Ex Machina
Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Movie Review: The Black Magic Movie A Dark Song Flips Horror Expectations on Their Head
» Movie: Pom Wonderful Presents The Greatest Movie Ever Sold
» Movie: Tig
» Movie: Everything Everywhere All At Once
» Movie: Son of God

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: Topics :: Arts & Entertainment-
Jump to: